Mystery Dungeon Franchise Wiki:Projects (Shiren 5 Vita Gen's Turf)

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Project: Shiren 5 Vita Gen's Turf
Proposal:
Proposee: Jubilee
Date: November 25, 2023
Priority: Low
  • Gen's Turf
    • On my 1st run, I found 4 Synthesis Pots in the first ~10 floors. I assumed they were just super common in this dungeon. I wanted the pots back at home, so I used an Escape Scroll rather than completing the run. I played Gen's Turf only 2 more times after that, once dying around 15F and then beating it, and I never saw another Synthesis Pot again. Why were the Synthesis Pots so common in that one run? Was I just incredibly lucky that run, or was something controlling that, like having a lucky day, and is it something I could control and repeat? I suspect there might be a hidden variable that influences luck in dungeon runs, and I suspect you can get a hint about it by talking to the fortune teller in Inori Village (and who also sometimes appears in Tower of Fortune). Maybe you should visit her before going into any dungeon, and depending on what she says on a given day, you can decide to go a dungeon to intentionally exit quickly to consume and discard some bad luck, or you can choose the right dungeon to go into to consume some good luck. E.g. maybe go into the hardest dungeons on days when the fortune teller says you have a good fortune?
    • On my 2nd run, which failed around ~15 F, I actually died several floors earlier, and a strange thing happened. A Character woman came out of nowhere and revived me, as if I had a Revival Herb. IIRC, she stayed around as an ally of mine, but quickly got killed by the many monsters around me. (I don't remember what I was doing to get in such a bad situation at the time.) Why did this lady appear, and is it something I can control? Is it something I unlocked without realizing it in Tower of Fortune or elsewhere? Will she always appear the first time I collapse in Gen's Turf, or do I need to reset her somehow? Is this by any chance the same Character woman who you find wandering in the Tower of Fortune who asks if you think she will find what she's looking for, and if you say no, she gives you an item and disappears, and if you say yes, she just disappears? (Working theory: this is an old note. There probably isn't anything unique here, it's probably just the young boy and his older sister side Character quest, which you can reset. But the note says that the Character that revived me stayed around as my ally for a bit—is it someone else??)
    • The dungeon summary info for Gen's Turf, before you launch the dungeon, says that you can request 3 rescues. I didn't see a way to request a rescue when I died, after the Character lady rescued me. Did I just miss it? Did the Character woman who rescued me throw it off?
    • [Confirm: Does swapping a trap in inventory with one on the ground count as an action? What if only one of the items is a trap, or neither is a trap?]
    • If you break a jar with traps inside it, they will be immovable.
    • Any traps thrown at Firebirds will burn up.
    • It is not yet know if you get additional Trapper Bracelets when you beat the 99 F version of the dungeon. The Japanese wiki seems to say that you only ever get one, the first time you beat the dungeon, but this needs confirmation.
    • [Can you get Trapper Bracelets in Trapper's Sandbox or not? Can you get multiple copies of Trapper Bracelets from this dungeon?]
    • I have not tried to make multiple copies of monster licenses. I wonder if you (e.g.) kept a duplicate license in a pot if only one copy would be destroyed if you accidentally damaged one of your ally monsters.
    • (I believe inflicting status effects on ally monsters does not break the license. Speeding them up with staves or talismans doesn't break it, but this needs more testing.)
is a bonus dungeon in Shiren 5 focusing on monster licenses and Trapper Bracelet Mode (the use of Traps against Monsters). You can not take Items, Gitan, or allies into the dungeon, but you can request Rescues up to 3 times and you do keep items you have on hand if you win. The dungeon is Day only. The goal floor is initially 30 F. After your first victory, the goal floor becomes 99 F and stays there permanently.

Gaining Access

This dungeon is unlocked by beating the Tower of Fortune, but the unlock is so trivial you'll probably unlock it without trying to. Presumably, you must unlock Gen as an ally.[Citation needed] This involves talking to Gen in his house in Nekomaneki Village, then talking to a woman in a house in Inori Village to get catnip juice, then talking to Gen again. Once these conditions are met, visit Gen's house again. The giant pot in the south-east corner of the room will now be glowing and acts as an entrance to the Gen's Turf dungeon. Once unlocked, you can also launch this dungeon by using the Sparrow Transport in the north-east corner of Nekomaneki Village.

Unique Features

Gen tells you about this dungeon when you first unlock it. You can never get Gen to repeat this information, so if you care, make sure to pay attention the one time he tells you about it. (His info may include hints, but if so, no one has explicitly documented what hints he gives.) Regardless, the differences from "baseline" play are hard to miss:

Day & Night
  • The dungeon is daytime only.
    • Like other daytime-only dungeons, there are no Torches.
Items
  • The items you find seem to be about the same as you'd find in other "normal" bonus dungeons or in the Tower of Fortune.
    • Food is somewhat less common, at least compared to the Tower of Fortune, so you may need to take steps to avoid starvation.
  • All items are pre-identified.
Shops
  • Shops appear to be rare or not exist at all on the 30 F version of the dungeon, but have been sited in the 99 F version.
    • Working theory is that shops are just generally more rare in this dungeon than they are in other dungeons. [Citation needed]
Traps
  • You can see all Traps.
  • Walking on traps does not set them off.
    • You can voluntarily trigger a trap you are standing on though, like normal (via the Feet menu item).
    • Presumably you can also trigger traps by throwing items on them, like normal.[Citation needed]
  • You can pick up traps and carry them with you as items in your inventory.
  • You can drop a trap under your feet, provided there is no trap or item there.
  • Dropping a trap does not take a turn (just like writing on a Blank Scroll; it's very rare and very helpful when actions don't take a turn!).
  • There is a new menu item available for trap items to "drop forward" them, which is to drop them in the open space in front of you. This also does not count as an action, but of course cannot be done if the space in front of you is not open.
  • You can throw a trap, but this does count as an action.
  • Once you put a trap down—by dropping it, drop-forwarding it, swapping it down to the ground, or throwing it—the trap now has a red dot and is immovable.
  • Traps spring on monsters when monsters step on them.
    • Traps trigger 100% of the time when monsters walk on them, monsters have no chance to get lucky and dodge the trap effect.[Citation needed]
    • Note that you can still be hurt by a trap, e.g. if a monster steps onto an Explosion right next to you.
    • Note that Floating-type Monsters don't trigger most traps, with the only exception being the Duelist, which behave slightly differently than other types of traps.
      • A monster that moves onto a space with a Duelist Trap will *always* spring it, even if it's a Floating-type monster.
      • If the Duelist Trap has a red dot / if you placed it there, it will *always* be destroyed after a single use.
    • You can also throw the trap at a monster to have it affect them.
      • Of course, this can miss.
      • And some monsters are immune to thrown items. (Flamebird burn up items thrown at them, and Absorbiphant feed on status effects induced by thrown items rather than being harmed by them.)
    • After a monster springs a trap, if the trap does not have a red dot (that is, you can still move this trap later), it is never destroyed and can still hurt other monsters who later step on it. But if it has a red dot (that is, you can no longer move it), it is sometimes destroyed. The odds of it being destroyed seem to be much less than 50%, and it may depend on the type of trap and/or the type of monster. [Citation needed]
  • Traps are common on every floor.
    • In fact, the commonality of traps may be identical to other dungeons, but just the fact that you can always see them may make them seem more common than usual.
    • Some trap types seem to be more common than others, but what floor you're on doesn't appear to affect trap distribution.
  • There are no Point Switch.
    • Working theory is that Points Traps can only appear in dungeons that let you take items in, e.g. when you could take advantage of them via your Point Card.[Data needed]

That is hopefully a complete list of the changes over baseline. It's a pretty big set of changes, and this may be the first time players see Trapper Bracelet Mode, Duelist Traps, Auras, Status Conditions, and Monster Licenses, all of which play a major role in how you can/should play this dungeon, so here's a bit more information about these things affect play. When a monster springs a Dueling Trap, it is afflicted with "Dueling Status" for ~10 turns[Citation needed]. If you kill the monster while it is in Dueling Status, there is a ~25% chance[Citation needed] that it will drop a monster license of the same kind. (E.g. a Mamel Family monster might drop a Mamel License, but will never drop a license for any other family of monster.) If you hold a monster license, monsters of that type will exude hearts of affection for you and will not attack you, but will instead wander the floor and attack other monsters that don't like you. Their victims will never attack back, so becoming friends with the right types of monsters can make it very easy to clear the floor of dangerous monsters. If an ally monster makes a kill, it does not give you experience, nor does the ally monster level up. As with other allies, you can swap places with an ally monster, but you can't speak with them. Trying to speak with them will simply attack them, so be careful. If you attack an ally monster, the corresponding monster license is destroyed and that family of monsters is back to being enemies again, but you can still befriend them again later by winning another duel with them. If you put the monster license down or in a pot, they are back to being enemies again, but revert to being friends again immediately when you put the license back in your main inventory. If you exit using the stairs with ally/friend monsters on the floor, there's a ~75% chance[Citation needed] that nothing will happen to the license and a ~25% chance[Citation needed] the monster license will be converted into a Blank Scroll. Note that all percentages are estimates based on limited playtime and of course may be wrong.

Final Reward

When you exit 30 F, you get a cutscene in which Gen approves of your feat and gives you a Trapper Bracelet. Don't confuse this with a Trap! When equipped, a Trapper Bracelet silently creates more traps on the current floor; it's ordinarily a terrible item, though oddly it becomes a great item when paired with the Trapper Bracelet. When equipped, a Trapper Bracelet enables Trapper Bracelet Mode in whatever dungeon you happen to be in. You can see traps, you can pick them up and move them, and they affect monsters instead of you. Theoretically, this could give you an overwhelming advantage in any dungeon that lets you take items in, and of course, you could use it as a base item in a Secret Pots and New Items and be able to buy Secret Pots and New Items Bracelets with the Trapper Bracelet effect on them any time you wanted more of them. In practice, for dungeons that let you take items in, you can bring in such powerful gear of other types that there's no compelling need to also be able to manipulate traps, and Trapper Bracelet Mode is so different than normal play that it might be jarring / annoying to always have this mode enabled. Still, it can't hurt to at least have one new item bracelet with this effect available in your arsenal.

Farming Opportunities

You can't take items in so it's non-trivial to take items out, but there are definitely 2 categories of items that are easier to accumulate here than in most locations: monster licenses and Traps. It might be nice to collect a bunch of Pit Traps, then use them in other dungeons that let you take items in to perform 100% perfectly safe heists. Or you could keep a Poison Arrow Trap with you to generate more Poison anytime you needed them (by throwing Stones onto the trap). But in reality, once you have a Trapper Bracelet, it's no doubt easier to collect traps from other dungeons that let you take items in. Traps can't be sold so there's no point trying to get rich farming traps from any location.

This is one of the only places you can get a Trapper Bracelet. But it's a reward item so technically not a farming opportunity.

That leaves monster licenses. Again, theoretically, this is a great place to collect monster licenses, but it's not trivial to farm them out. With appropriate prep, it would be easy to farm monster licenses in dungeons that let you take items in. For example, you could bring in a 5-spot Blessing filled with Nixer Scroll, and several more pots filled with Blank Scrolls to be used as Extraction Scroll, and create as many monster licenses as you wanted—filling up your inventory with licenses if you so desired—then escape easily. (Only read a Nixer Scroll when it's Blessings, Curses, and Seals, then put it back into the Blessing Pot to re-bless it after you've read it once.) Once you're able to farm points out of Lost Well or Gorger's Manor, you can buy all the Blank Scrolls you want, so you don't need monster licenses just to make Blank Scrolls out of them. The Monster License shop in Nekomaneki Village sells licenses for 5,000 Gitan each, but you can only sell them for 100 Gitan each, so you'll never get rich selling licenses either. (Note that most items have a 35% rule—the price you can sell them for is 35% of the price you can buy them for—but that's not true for some special items, including monster licenses.) You also don't need monster licenses to complete the Item Book. So, that just leaves the direct utility of the monster license: the ability to tame a family of monsters. This could definitely be useful, e.g. to have a set of 5 of the most valuable licenses as part of your normal arsenal of gear to take into dungeons that let you take items in. If this is of interest, try buying them from the Monster License shop directly first, as that would certainly be fastest / easiest if they have the license you want, and if that doesn't work, try farming them using the Blessing Pot / Nixer Scroll trick from dungeons that let you take items in, as that will no doubt be faster than trying to farm them from this dungeon. But generally speaking, if a dungeon lets you take equipment in, you won't need monster licenses to be able to beat that dungeon easily.

Strategies

Though this dungeon plays very differently than baseline, it's not very difficult to pick up. Levels are generated with loads of traps, which you can see and move and they don't affect you, and they do affect monsters. You'll max out inventory with useful traps very quickly and need to decide which traps are best to keep and what to do with the rest. Traps that disable monsters are more useful than traps that do a small amount of damage. Here's a rough guide of traps from best to worst:

  • Sleep Trap completely disable the monster long enough for you to kill it with melee damage.
  • Blind Trap also completely(?)[Citation needed] disable the monster long enough for you to kill it with melee combat, though it moves in a straight line which can include hitting you if you're in the way, or which can make it hard to hit the monster enough times to kill it before it wanders out of reach.
  • Slow Trap are about as good as blindness traps and maybe better. With them, you can kill virtually any non-Flying-type, non-Status Conditioned monster without taking damage, so long as you have a retreat path. Because this involves retreating every other turn, it does take more turns to kill the monster.
  • Spin Trap are almost as good as blindness traps, except you may have to move to pursue the monster, and it may hit you by chance.
  • Onigiri Trap can dramatically reduce the damage the monster can deal to you.
  • Pit Traps make the monster disappear entirely, which is great if you never want to fight it.
  • Warp Grasses are good for delaying monsters to fight them later when you're better prepared.
  • Shadow Bind Trap can block other monsters from chasing you.
  • Poison arrow traps, hunger traps, rust traps, and curse traps all degrade the monster in some way, making it easier to kill safely.
  • Rockslide traps do a pretty heft amount of damage, killing weaker monsters outright and making others easier to kill safely.
  • Iron arrow traps do a tiny bit of damage. Hey, every little bit helps.
  • Explosion traps and Big Explosion Trap do more damage, but can also destroy nearby items or damage you if you're adjacent when the monster steps on the trap. This can also widen and thus destroy a bottleneck, allowing monsters to go past, so consider using these more often inside rooms rather than in hallways.

The two most obvious things to do are great choices.

  1. Make sure your inventory is always full with traps if you have nothing better to carry. When you're about to engage a monster, you can drop them or drop-forward them (or both, because neither takes a turn!), and thereby inflict damage or status ailments on them.
  2. Put them at the entrances to rooms or in hallways, where monsters are forced to move over them. A series of traps in a hallway can make a safe path for you to retreat over if necessary. But rather than picking up every trap and/or moving them all to choke points, consider leaving some that were spawned in the middles of rooms where they are, because they seem to last longer (indefinitely?) if you don't move them. If you can retreat to lead monsters over the trap and take advantage of it without moving it, you can get more value out of the trap before it disappears. This is especially true for the Duelist Trap. [CONFIRM] If you move a Duelist Trap, it will affect one monster 100% of the time, even if it's flying, then disappear. But if you don't move it, you can use it to affect every monster that you guide over it and it still won't disappear.[Citation needed]

Try to keep a good supply of Duelist Traps (say, 3 - 5 of them) with you at all times. Use them on the toughest monsters, even Flying-type monsters, for a chance to kill it and get a corresponding monster license. If at first you don't succeed, try with the next monster of the type you're interested in. Getting even one monster license can make the next several floors considerably easier, as you don't have to fight that monster family and they go around helping you clear the floor, and there's nothing stopping you from getting lots of monster licenses (except inventory space). Befriend a Flamebird type monster and then Flamebirds will heal you anytime they're adjacent to you and wounded, which is pretty sweet. They actually pursue you to heal you when you're wounded.[Citation needed] Cheer-Ham monsters may have a similar excellent effect of working to keep you alive. If you befriend a Swordsman monsters, they will never knock your equipment away again and they can actually create equipment by attacking other monsters but the equipment is always weak stuff.[Citation needed]

On the other end of the spectrum, befriending Momoseal may not be that useful as they rarely move. Befriending Naptapir Family monsters can be useful, but you have to walk next to them to wake them up before they will help you patrol the dungeon. Befriending monsters that can travel on water or walls seems cool, but it effectively means they won't do a very good job of patrolling the places where you need to walk. Don't befriend every monster type, of course, because you still need to gain experience and level up to make it through to the end. But do regularly win new licenses from time to time.

Monster licenses work for an entire family of monsters.[Citation needed] As such, a given license tends to be useful for 2-3 floors at a time, then that family of monster stops appearing for a while. Should you deliberately try to turn that license into a Blank Scroll before losing access to those monsters, or should you hold on to that license for when other, tougher monsters in that family start appearing? Tough call. Saving a Dragon Family license might be a particularly good idea, as late form Dragons are particularly deadly.

If you want to preserve a license, one way to do so is to make sure there are none of that type of monster on the floor before you leave. This can be tricky, but you can put the license on the floor or in a pot to turn those monsters into enemies again, kill them, and then collect the license and advance floors before more of them spawn. Theoretically, you could just put the license into a pot and advance floors, as even though there would still be instances of that monster on the floor, they would be enemies at that time, so the license should stay intact, but this needs confirmation.

But for most monster licenses, it's probably not worth trying to save them, as it puts pressure on your inventory to carry around an item that is worthless for (say) 10 - 20 floors at a time, and the alternative is very useful indeed. So, except for really important licenses, it's good to try to deliberately turn licenses into Blank Scrolls before you run out of that type of monster. Do not attack monsters that are allies! This will just destroy the license. This happens if you try to "talk" to an ally monster, and also happens if you inflict damage in other ways. Beware of area effect damage such as Vacuum Slash Scrl. If you have a bunch of ally monsters in the room, it will break all their monster licenses all at once. Instead, when you leave ally monsters behind on a floor, there's a chance the license will turn into "something good", and so far, this seems to always be a Blank Scroll. Blank Scrolls are awesome and arguably more valuable than the license itself. As there is apparently only a 25% chance of a monster license "decaying" into a Blank Scroll[Citation needed], don't wait until the last floor before trying to convert it into a Blank Scroll. In fact, it's best to always be making more licenses and always be trying to turn non-critical licenses into Blank Scrolls. Having a huge supply of Blank Scrolls substantially improves your chances of winning the run.

Starvation can be a problem. A Rotten Onigiri is better than starvation. Of course, if you have a supply of Blank Scrolls from the above trick, you can use them in various ways to try to stave off hunger. (Examples: a Fixer Scroll will fill your belly. A Squid Sushi Scroll thrown at a Squid family monster will turn the Squid into an Onigiri. A Mnstr House Scrl can create a Monster Houses with lots of additional items, some of which might be food. If you have a Revival Grass or Undo Grass, you can use a Blessing Scroll on them to make them useful more than once, and if you die from starvation, you'll revive with a full belly. And in a huge pinch, you could try reading a Commend Letter, though the Fixer Scroll route is probably better than this.)

Pit Traps aren't as common as most trap types. Consider keeping 1-2 on hand at all times. In addition to getting rid of any nasty non-Flying-type monster, you can also put them down in a shop and manually trigger it to perform the world's safest heist, without even being branded a thief! (Presumably, the designers deliberately made shops less common here precisely because it's so trivial to steal when you can pick up and move Pit Traps.)

The Page of Youth dungeon also focuses on monster licenses, to an even greater degree than Gen's Turf. The tips on that page may also be relevant in this dungeon as well.

Monsters

The types of monsters that can appear in this dungeon have not yet been replicated to this wiki. Here are good external resources:

Discussion

  • These are Rhaining's notes from the Shiren 5 Vita articles. Jubilee (talk) 00:33, November 26, 2023 (UTC)

Solution

Solution comments:
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