Draft:Shiren 5 2020:Primordial Chasm: Difference between revisions

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{{Shiren 5 2020 Draft}}
{| class="wikitable" style="float:right; margin-left: 10px;"
{| class="wikitable" style="float:right; margin-left: 10px;"
! colspan="2" |Key Parameters
! colspan="2" |Key Parameters
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|-
|-
!Shops
!Shops
|Normal (all 3 types) (with some fixed?)
|All 3 types
|-
|-
!Monster Houses
!Monster Houses
|Normal, pop-ups possible
|Normal, pop-ups
|-
|-
!NPCs
!Characters
|Shopkeepers only
|Shopkeepers only
|-
|-
!Spawn Rate
!Spawn Rate
|Normal (1 monster per 30 turns)
|Normal (every 30 turns)
|-
|-
!Winds of Kron
!Winds of Kron
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|}
|}


Primordial Chasm is a challenging bonus dungeon in Shiren 5 that may be the closest experience to the classic, hardcore roguelike experience. All other daytime dungeons could be thought of as practice for this, the ultimate daytime dungeon, though it doesn't cover the full breadth of possibilities in Shiren 5 as it is daytime only. (This dungeon is the closest equivalent to the final dungeon in Shiren 1, Fay's Final Puzzle.) Nothing is pre-identified, and the item distribution is relatively wide even on early floors. You can't take items, Gitan, or allies into the dungeon, but you do keep items you have on hand if you win and you can request rescue up to 3 times if needed. The goal floor is initially 50 F but after first victory becomes 99 F and stays there permanently.
Primordial Chasm is a challenging [[Draft:Shiren 5 2020:Location|bonus dungeon]] in Shiren 5 that may be the closest experience to the classic, hardcore roguelike experience. (This dungeon is the closest equivalent to the final dungeon in Shiren 1, {{Shiren1DS|Fay's Final Puzzle}}.) Nothing is pre-identified, and the item distribution is relatively wide even on early floors. You can't take items, Gitan, or allies into the dungeon, but you do keep items you have on hand if you win and you can request rescue up to 3 times if needed. The goal floor is initially 50 F but after first victory becomes 99 F and stays there permanently.


== Gaining Access ==
==Gaining Access==
After beating the Tower of Fortune, return to the blacksmith's shop in Hermit's Hermitage to unlock access to the Primordial Chasm. You'll get a short cutscene of an Ancient Mamel asking Shiren for help, after which you can enter the Primordial Chasm through a glowing pot in the blacksmith's shop. After first victory, you can also warp directly to the Primordial Chasm from the Sparrow Transport in Nekomaneki Village.
After beating the {{Shiren52020|Tower of Fortune}}, return to the blacksmith's shop in {{Shiren52020|Hermit's Hermitage}} to unlock access to the Primordial Chasm. You'll get a short cutscene of an Ancient Mamel asking Shiren for help, after which you can enter the Primordial Chasm through a glowing pot in the blacksmith's shop. After first victory, you can also enter Primordial Chasm directly from the {{Shiren52020|Sparrow Transport}} in {{Shiren52020|Nekomaneki Village}}.


== Unique Features ==
==Unique Features==
* The dungeon is daytime only.
* The dungeon is daytime only.
* All items are unidentified by default.
* All items are unidentified by default.
* There is a wider distribution of items in general.
* There is a wide distribution of items, even on early floors.
** Unlike many dungeons, you can find a wide variety of items, including very dangerous items, on early floors.
* All three types of shops appear.
** Some items that are rarer in other dungeons seem to be more common in this dungeon.
*There are no characters other than the shopkeepers.
* There are no wandering NPCs, but all three types of shops can be found.
*Monster difficulty ramp is steeper than Tower of Fortune, but is about in line with other dungeons where you cannot take items in.
* The difficulty ramp is harder/steeper than compared to the Tower of Fortune, but seems about the same as for many other bonus dungeons.


The Japanese wiki claims that a shop of some kind always appears on 10 F, 25 F, 50 F, and 75 F. This has not yet been confirmed in the English version.
Shops are guaranteed to appear on 10 F, 25 F, 50 F, and 75 F. They can also appear on other floors.


== Final Reward ==
==Final Reward==
The first time you beat the dungeon (by descending past 50 F), you get a cutscene of Shiren, Koppa, and the Ancient Mamel finding a portal. The Ancient Mamel thanks Shiren and Koppa giving them an Onigiri Shield, and goes through the portal back home to ancient times. Koppa then suggests it might be fun to go through the portal as well, but the god Reeva appears and states that they may not go through. (Didn't we defeat Reeva a few times already, so couldn't we force our way into the portal? Maybe Reeva was just giving us a small challenge then and is actually more powerful than he previously let on?) In any case, the heroes don't go through the portal and return home.
The first time you beat the dungeon (by descending past 50 F), you get a cutscene of Shiren, Koppa, and the Ancient Mamel finding a portal. The Ancient Mamel thanks Shiren and Koppa giving them an {{Shiren52020|Onigiri Shield}}, and goes through the portal back home to ancient times. Koppa then suggests it might be fun to go through the portal as well, but the god Reeva appears and states that they may not go through. (Didn't we defeat Reeva a few times already, so couldn't we force our way into the portal? Maybe Reeva was just giving us a small challenge then and is actually more powerful than he previously let on?) In any case, the heroes don't go through the portal and return home.


On subsequent victories, you get a cutscene in which Shiren and Koppa reach the end without the Ancient Mamel, and the portal is gone. As there is apparently nothing to do, Koppa says they should just head back, which is the end of the cutscene. There is no reward item for subsequent victories.
On subsequent victories, you get a cutscene in which Shiren and Koppa reach the end without the Ancient Mamel, and the portal is gone. As there is apparently nothing to do, Koppa says they should just head back, which is the end of the cutscene. There is no reward item for subsequent victories.


== Farming Opportunities ==
==Farming Opportunities==
This is one of the more difficult dungeons, and you can't take items in, so it's not a good location to try to deliberately farm out any specific items. However, because the item table is wider than in most dungeons, it might be possible to find something a bit rare on early floors and get lucky to find a way to escape out of the dungeon, or for swords and shields, you could tag them at a shopkeeper and hope to get them back from the Sentry at Hermit's Hermitage if/when you die, though cash is not particularly abundant in this dungeon. If there is in fact always a shop on 10 F, it might be relatively easy to find a good sword or shield before 10 F, sell everything else to the shopkeeper on 10 F, which would hopefully give you enough cash to tag the 1 sword or shield you want.
Primordial Chasm is a difficult dungeon, so it is not a good location to farm out any specific items. However, rare items do appear more often here, and you can hope to get lucky and find a way to escape. For swords and shields, you can tag them at a shopkeeper (there is always one on 10 F) so you can get them back from the Sentry at Hermit's Hermitage if you die.
 
==Strategy==
The general {{Shiren52020|Dungeon Tips}} apply here. A few topics to pay attention to in particular:
* Ways to {{Shiren52020|Identifying Items|identify items}}, including {{Shiren52020|Identifying Items#Indirect Identification|price checks}} and {{Shiren52020|Identifying Items#Direct Identification|mass identification}}
* Ways to {{Shiren52020|Dungeon Tips#Stealing from shops|steal from shops}}
*{{Shiren52020|Dungeon Tips#Synthesis and mixing|Using Mixers}} to add {{Shiren52020|Rune}}s to your equipment
 
{{Shiren52020|Mixer}}s appear on 8-10 F, 31-33 F, 50-51 F and finally 70-71 F. Plan to stay on these floors for as long as you can, so you can get all your mixing done.
 
Floor 10 deserves a special mention, since it has Mixers, a guaranteed shop, and Kumonigiri which can drop Onigiri, enabling your extended stay. If you can't do mass identification yet, you should price check each of your items, test them using a Mixer, and name your remaining items based on what you've learned. Watch out for {{Shiren52020|Pop Tank}}s, as they can destroy shop items from a distance.
 
{{Shiren52020|Mudkin Family|Mudkin}} and {{Shiren52020|Swordsman Family|Swordsmen}} appear on 12 F. Be especially careful on this floor as these monsters can cause {{Shiren52020|Dungeon Tips#Equipment-damaging monsters|permanent damage}} to your equipment. Only fight a Swordsman directly if there's a wall behind you, with no monster in between. Remember you can un-equip your sword and/or shield before fighting a Mudkin.


== Strategies ==
{{Shiren52020|Boy Cart}}s appear on 19-20 F, Cross Carts on 28-29 F. If you have a Dodger Pot, use it on these floors and farm up at least 300 arrows.
There are no unique strategies needed for this dungeon, but you will need to be a very strong player to beat this dungeon. Some specific topics you will need to master:
* You'll need to know how to most efficiently identify items.
* You'll need to know how to maximize the value of monster houses, including when to create them and when to skip them.
* You'll need to know how to maximize the value shops, including them for price checks, for mass item identification, and especially knowing when and how to steal from them safely.
* You'll need to know all about runes and crafting great equipment on the fly.
* You should plan for what monsters you will face on upcoming floors.


See the Shiren 5 Strategies section for information on most of these topics. See the Monsters section of this page for information on what monsters appear at what depths of this dungeon.
There are guaranteed shops on 10, 25, 50 and 75 F. On these floors and the floors preceding them, it is worth checking every tile for traps before you walk on them, so you don't get caught by a Floor Warp Trap or Pit Trap. This also applies to the Mixer floors.


If there is in fact always a shop of some kind on 10 F, 25 F, 50 F, and 75 F, you should definitely plan to take advantage of that.
Once you are down to the last 10 or 20 floors, start {{Shiren52020|Dungeon Tips#Diving|making your way to the exit quickly}} instead of full exploring every floor.


== Expert Badges ==
==Expert Badges==
# You conquered a dungeon without equipping any weapons!
# You conquered a dungeon without equipping any weapons!
# You conquered a dungeon without using any grass!
# You conquered a dungeon without using any grass!
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# You conquered a dungeon without doing any direct attacks!
# You conquered a dungeon without doing any direct attacks!


== Monsters ==
==Monsters==
The types of monsters that can appear in this dungeon have not yet been replicated to this wiki. Here are good external resources:
The types of monsters that can appear in this dungeon have not yet been replicated to this wiki. Here are good external resources:
* https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C1h9IRPQPLg9g7aE48wlyw8IudHIStawK4mR3kuggto/edit?usp=sharing
* https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C1h9IRPQPLg9g7aE48wlyw8IudHIStawK4mR3kuggto/edit?usp=sharing
* https://seesaawiki.jp/w/shiren5/d/%b8%b6%bb%cf%a4%cb%c2%b3%a4%af%b7%ea (Japanese wiki page for this location)
* https://seesaawiki.jp/w/shiren5/d/%b8%b6%bb%cf%a4%cb%c2%b3%a4%af%b7%ea (Japanese wiki page for this location)


== Open Questions ==


[[Category:Shiren 5 Locations]]
{{Shiren 5 2020 Locations Navbox}}
[[Category:Shiren 5 2020 Locations]]
[[Category:Final Dungeons]]
[[Category:Final Dungeons]]
[[Category:Dungeons]]
[[Category:Dungeons]]

Latest revision as of 00:15, 1 July 2025

Key Parameters
Initial Goal Floor 50F
Final Goal Floor 99F
Day / Night Day
Bring Items In No
Take Items Out Yes
# of Allies 0
# of Rescues 3
Pre-ID'd Items None
New Items No
Shops All 3 types
Monster Houses Normal, pop-ups
Characters Shopkeepers only
Spawn Rate Normal (every 30 turns)
Winds of Kron Accelerated (1@1200, 4@1500)

Primordial Chasm is a challenging bonus dungeon in Shiren 5 that may be the closest experience to the classic, hardcore roguelike experience. (This dungeon is the closest equivalent to the final dungeon in Shiren 1, Fay's Final Puzzle.) Nothing is pre-identified, and the item distribution is relatively wide even on early floors. You can't take items, Gitan, or allies into the dungeon, but you do keep items you have on hand if you win and you can request rescue up to 3 times if needed. The goal floor is initially 50 F but after first victory becomes 99 F and stays there permanently.

Gaining Access

After beating the Tower of Fortune, return to the blacksmith's shop in Hermit's Hermitage to unlock access to the Primordial Chasm. You'll get a short cutscene of an Ancient Mamel asking Shiren for help, after which you can enter the Primordial Chasm through a glowing pot in the blacksmith's shop. After first victory, you can also enter Primordial Chasm directly from the Sparrow Transport in Nekomaneki Village.

Unique Features

  • The dungeon is daytime only.
  • All items are unidentified by default.
  • There is a wide distribution of items, even on early floors.
  • All three types of shops appear.
  • There are no characters other than the shopkeepers.
  • Monster difficulty ramp is steeper than Tower of Fortune, but is about in line with other dungeons where you cannot take items in.

Shops are guaranteed to appear on 10 F, 25 F, 50 F, and 75 F. They can also appear on other floors.

Final Reward

The first time you beat the dungeon (by descending past 50 F), you get a cutscene of Shiren, Koppa, and the Ancient Mamel finding a portal. The Ancient Mamel thanks Shiren and Koppa giving them an Onigiri Shield, and goes through the portal back home to ancient times. Koppa then suggests it might be fun to go through the portal as well, but the god Reeva appears and states that they may not go through. (Didn't we defeat Reeva a few times already, so couldn't we force our way into the portal? Maybe Reeva was just giving us a small challenge then and is actually more powerful than he previously let on?) In any case, the heroes don't go through the portal and return home.

On subsequent victories, you get a cutscene in which Shiren and Koppa reach the end without the Ancient Mamel, and the portal is gone. As there is apparently nothing to do, Koppa says they should just head back, which is the end of the cutscene. There is no reward item for subsequent victories.

Farming Opportunities

Primordial Chasm is a difficult dungeon, so it is not a good location to farm out any specific items. However, rare items do appear more often here, and you can hope to get lucky and find a way to escape. For swords and shields, you can tag them at a shopkeeper (there is always one on 10 F) so you can get them back from the Sentry at Hermit's Hermitage if you die.

Strategy

The general Dungeon Tips apply here. A few topics to pay attention to in particular:

Mixers appear on 8-10 F, 31-33 F, 50-51 F and finally 70-71 F. Plan to stay on these floors for as long as you can, so you can get all your mixing done.

Floor 10 deserves a special mention, since it has Mixers, a guaranteed shop, and Kumonigiri which can drop Onigiri, enabling your extended stay. If you can't do mass identification yet, you should price check each of your items, test them using a Mixer, and name your remaining items based on what you've learned. Watch out for Pop Tanks, as they can destroy shop items from a distance.

Mudkin and Swordsmen appear on 12 F. Be especially careful on this floor as these monsters can cause permanent damage to your equipment. Only fight a Swordsman directly if there's a wall behind you, with no monster in between. Remember you can un-equip your sword and/or shield before fighting a Mudkin.

Boy Carts appear on 19-20 F, Cross Carts on 28-29 F. If you have a Dodger Pot, use it on these floors and farm up at least 300 arrows.

There are guaranteed shops on 10, 25, 50 and 75 F. On these floors and the floors preceding them, it is worth checking every tile for traps before you walk on them, so you don't get caught by a Floor Warp Trap or Pit Trap. This also applies to the Mixer floors.

Once you are down to the last 10 or 20 floors, start making your way to the exit quickly instead of full exploring every floor.

Expert Badges

  1. You conquered a dungeon without equipping any weapons!
  2. You conquered a dungeon without using any grass!
  3. You conquered a dungeon without using any scrolls!
  4. You conquered a dungeon without using any staves!
  5. You conquered a dungeon without using any talismans!
  6. You conquered a dungeon without using any pots!
  7. You conquered a dungeon without collapsing even once!
  8. You conquered a dungeon without doing any direct attacks!

Monsters

The types of monsters that can appear in this dungeon have not yet been replicated to this wiki. Here are good external resources: