Forum - (Shiren 1 DS) Discussion: Minimalist Challenge

Hobserk on Apr 19 2009, 4:37 PM EDT

Nice idea. One problem I can see is that with the right "other items" equipment is actually not really important at all. Also level can reduce the need for equip even more. I'm sure Ceremonial Cave is winnable without any equip as long as you level up enough before going in.

Or even worse, forget leveling and just go in with 6 Holding Jars full of Air Devil meat
I also added Final Puzzle :)

DonJonker on Apr 19 2009, 5:04 PM EDT

I've been thinking about that as well. I think that the best way around it is to go in only with items you find on your way to the dungeon entrance, if that's viable. Might not be for the Tainted Path: not sure. Also: as you hinted, the bufu mod ought to be avoided in all cases.

Hobserk on Apr 19 2009, 5:22 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 19 2009, 5:25 PM EDT

Yep Riceball only runs are a good idea. Maybe backtracking should be excluded as well. You can get to max power between by doing F8-F14-F8 until satisfied.

Also if the three dungeons turn out to be impossible, we could try to get as deep as possible instead. I think tainted path is possible and Ravine certainly isn't possible.

Hobserk on Apr 19 2009, 6:52 PM EDT

... I started a Riceball only run with trying to get as far as possible and so far the run is ultra lucky. I'm at F23 with a Mastersword+9 and a Hideshield+6 and Antidrain Armband. I even have a Herb of Revive that I stole from a Shop.
...And now I fell into a trapdoor that I had already detected via sword in a cleared monster house and lost about 15 items. I think there might have also been a shop on that level.. :(

Posted by Hobserk on Apr 19 2009, 6:52 PM EDT.

» ... I started a Riceball only run with trying to get as far as possible and so far the run is ultra lucky. I'm at F23 with a Mastersword+9 and a Hideshield+6 and Antidrain Armband. I even have a Herb of Revive that I stole from a Shop.
...And now I fell into a trapdoor that I had already detected via sword in a cleared monster house and lost about 15 items. I think there might have also been a shop on that level.. :(«

DonJonker on Apr 20 2009, 3:53 AM EDT

Coolness - which dungeon are you going after? When I was thinking riceball-only, I hope you understood that was excluding weapon and armor. Otherwise, that mastersword won't be breaking any records for table mountain :P. Hell of a Kobami Valley run, though.

Thinking further, I believe that if you entered Ravine of the Dead with Kabra Reborn+99 and Stormward +99, but otherwise only with gear you found on your way to Janus Valley, I think you'd have a real shot. It'd be nerve-racking, since that delicious gear would be at risk, but I believe do-able. I'll have to gather up the stones to give it a whirl, and then we can set the victory conditions in stone.

Hobserk on Apr 20 2009, 4:15 AM EDT

Oh okay... Uh when I was thinking Riceball only I meant just that.. Was trying to get up Tainted Path as far as possible. Give me a Melding Jar[5] and an Armor Ward and I call it possible from where I am now.

As for Ravine with only equipment: You are underestimating the power of the ultimate three. I think the biggest plus of Shiren, the fact that all items can be very powerful if used right, is the biggest flaw in your idea. If you exclude Bufu, then you'll also have to exclude the ultimate three for similar reasons. Oh and Walrus Shields... you have no idea what I can do with Walruses :) So why not just go with Riceball only and accept that some dungeons won't be possible.

Hobserk on Apr 20 2009, 4:18 AM EDT

Also for the Ravine: Are we talking F25 or F50?

Posted by Hobserk on Apr 20 2009, 4:15 AM EDT.

» Oh okay... Uh when I was thinking Riceball only I meant just that.. Was trying to get up Tainted Path as far as possible. Give me a Melding Jar[5] and an Armor Ward and I call it possible from where I am now.

As for Ravine with only equipment: You are underestimating the power of the ultimate three. I think the biggest plus of Shiren, the fact that all items can be very powerful if used right, is the biggest flaw in your idea. If you exclude Bufu, then you'll also have to exclude the ultimate three for similar reasons. Oh and Walrus Shields... you have no idea what I can do with Walruses :) So why not just go with Riceball only and accept that some dungeons won't be possible.«

DonJonker on Apr 20 2009, 4:42 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 20 2009, 5:56 AM EDT

Yeah, the less the better. What I meant by importing items was even like bringing a polearm +1 and ignoring all other weapons you find.. something like that - just so it's easier to control. I'm sure you're gonna beat the hell out of all the records regardless. ;)

see quote... I'll defer to your judgment on that one. But there's a lot of room for flexibility here: we can add rows underneath weapons & armor of what might be reasonable, and let those be reduced along with the rest. I'm not absolutely sure what the Ultimate 3 are.. I'm guessing Postpone, Switching and Sealing?

So someone completes a run on the ravine with the Ultimate 3 with whatever number of charges, say, Postpone [20], Switching [20], Sealing [20].. Those are listed, and subsequent efforts try to improve on that as well as equip. The eventual goal is to reduce the starting inventory as much as possible to nil. Eventually maybe someone'll do it with a staff of happiness and a walrus. :) Sound plausible? I'm loath to just admit that the Ravine can't be included.. although this is admittedly somewhat complicated.

Riceball rule is in effect for all other dungeons.

Posted by Hobserk on Apr 20 2009, 4:18 AM EDT.

» Also for the Ravine: Are we talking F25 or F50?«

DonJonker on Apr 20 2009, 4:44 AM EDT

Haven't made it to F50 yet so can't really make that call- if the monsters keep changing and the dungeon stays interesting I'd be inclined towards F50.

Hobserk on Apr 20 2009, 5:57 AM EDT

Uh sorry about that... The ultimate three is my name for the Homing Sword, the Prism Shield and the Gaze Shield