Draft:Shiren 5 2020:Perilous Rocks: Difference between revisions

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(→‎Strategies: removed many paragraphs (identifying items and one other at least, and the latter half in "maximizing shops" which deals with theft) since most of this stuff is repeated on other pages, and should be replaced by some links. More editing to be done later)
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!NPCs
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Perilous Rocks is a bonus dungeon in Shiren 5 with a higher rate of monster houses and focusing especially on "pop-up" monster houses. You can't take items, Gitan, or allies into the dungeon, nor can you request rescue, but you keep the items you have on hand if you win. The dungeon is daytime only and the initial goal floor is 50 F. After first victory, the goal floor becomes 99 F and stays there permanently.
'''Perilous Rocks''' is a [[Shiren 5 Plus/Locations|bonus dungeon]] in Shiren 5 with a higher rate of monster houses, including "pop-up" monster houses. You can't take items, Gitan, or allies into the dungeon, nor can you request rescue, but you keep the items if you win. The dungeon is daytime only and the initial goal floor is 50 F. After the first victory, the goal floor becomes 99 F and stays there permanently.


== Gaining Access ==
== Gaining Access ==
This dungeon can be accessed from the Dungeon Center in Nekomaneki Village. Access is not restricted; you can play as soon as you can reach the Dungeon Center.
This dungeon can be accessed from the Dungeon Center in [[Shiren 5/Nekomaneki Village|Nekomaneki Village]]. Access is not restricted; you can play as soon as you can reach the Dungeon Center.


== Unique Features ==
== Unique Features ==
* Monster houses are definitely more common than normal, and especially "pop-up" or "surprise" monster houses.
* Monster houses are more common than normal, and especially "pop-up" or "surprise" monster houses.
* Shops seem to be more common than normal as well.
* Shops are more common than normal.
* Item distribution differs but it's hard to be specific:
* Item distribution differs but it's hard to be specific:
** You can apparently find the full variety of items in this dungeon, though not uniformly spread across all the floors.
** You can apparently find the full variety of items in this dungeon, though not uniformly spread across all the floors.
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== Final Reward ==
== Final Reward ==
Every time you beat this dungeon, you get a Worthy Shield. This is the ultimate / L8 form of the Shoddy Plank, and as such, isn't particularly useful. [TODO: re-test the resonance of the Shoddy pair, at lower levels and at L8, and see if that makes them more valuable.]
Every time you beat this dungeon, you get a Worthy Shield, the level 8 form of the [[Shiren 5/Items/Shields/Shoddy Plank Type|Shoddy Plank]], which isn't particularly useful.


== Farming Opportunities ==
== Farming Opportunities ==


== Strategies ==
== Strategy ==
This is a really fun dungeon. It's daytime only (which some players find more fun), it's challenging, and yet it's very generous with items due to the higher rate of monster houses and shops. In effect, you get to experience the full breadth of what Shiren has to offer in a single dungeon run.
Like with other dungeons where you cannot take items in, many tips related to beating this dungeon can be found in [[Shiren 5/Dungeon Tips|Dungeon Tips]].  


Beating this dungeon basically requires becoming a strong Shiren player all around, and in particular, become an expert in some core Shiren skills: identifying items, maximizing monster houses, maximizing shops including theft, and selecting and enhancing equipment. None of these topics are specific to this dungeon, so look through the Strategies section for help. [TODO: make sure there are strategy pages for each of these topics then come back and link to them from here.] But as the general strategy pages may not be very detailed yet, I'll give a tiny bit of info on each topic here.
This dungeon is very generous with items, due to the higher rate of monster houses and shops.  


Identifying items: It's usually but not 100% safe to identify certain types of items by usage, esp. when you find those items on early floors of the dungeon (say, 1F-10F). Items found in this range are less likely to be cursed, less likely to be deadly, and less likely to be super useful such that you need to preserve them for the right moments. Thus, you can relatively safely consume grasses and scrolls, and test staves, talismans, and pots, as well as equip swords and shields. The usual tricks apply. For example, when reading an unknown scroll, it's best to clear the floor to the extent you want to clear it first and to stand just inside a room near a hallway that leads to another room with the exit. This way, you can retreat to the exit pretty safely even if the scroll you discover is (e.g.) Monster House Scroll, and since you've already cleared the floor to the extent you want to, if you get a bad status effect such as Grounded or Muzzled, you can just exit the floor to clear the bad status. Another good trick is to wait until you find a Strip Trap before trying on all your equipment, in case any of it is cursed. Another great way to identify stuff is to sell it to the shopkeeper then give the shopkeeper an Identify Scroll, which is guaranteed to identify everything the shopkeeper owns. This is particularly useful if you have a lot of money to buy back the best items after they're identified, or when you're confident you can steal back what you want. Later, when money is less of an object, but you have lots of staves with unknown numbers of charges and lots of emergency gear that you don't know isn't cursed or sealed, you can use this trick to fully identify all the items you need to identify and just buy back the ones you want. Alternatively, there are loads of grasses in particular that make good runes, esp. when applied to swords, so you can just try mixing unknown grasses onto swords anytime you have both and a Mixer monster handy. If it does make a rune, the grass will be identified in your game state, and if it doesn't make a rune, then you know it's not one of the many grasses that do make runes.


Maximizing monster houses: The usual tricks apply here as well. (I'll save tips related to "pop-up" monster houses below.) Never fight in the middle of the room, but retreat into a hallway. Use Pinning Staff to escape, use Cloning Staff to distract, use a Confusion Scroll if you need the entire room disabled for a few turns. If at all possible, avoid walking on any tile that you don't 100% know is untrapped. Note that the hallway entrances to all rooms including monster houses are never trapped to begin with, but if you dig your own entrances, those entry tiles may be trapped. Of course, you can swing your sword over every tile to check for traps, which is especially helpful in small monster houses and especially tedious in large ones. In "great hall monster houses" (as they were called in Shiren 1), the density of traps is so low it's not really worth it to check for traps with every step; it's more important to move into a strong defensible position if possible so you can control the rate at which you face incoming enemies. Again, Pinning is super helpful to escape problems. As a corollary, the Steady Shield and Unmoving Rune can be very good (e.g. they can save your life from being yanked into the middle of a monster house by a Fear Rabbit), but it's debateable if you should use them, as it's also very helpful to be able to use a Warp Grass or Pinning Staff when in trouble without having to remove your shield first. Make sure *not* to step on the trap that turns all items into monsters, at least not until you've despoiled everything you want from the room. And lastly, learn to skip monster houses when you have virtually everything you want already, as beyond a certain point of wealth, the upside of risking a monster house becomes less and less worth it, esp. as you get deeper and the danger increases. So sometimes the best way to maximize a monster house that is great hall (full floor / single room) on a deep floor is to pin your way to the exit as fast as possible. [TODO: find ExNihilo's tips about how best to clear out monster houses on GameFAQs.com and work that info in here.]
Maximizing monster houses: The usual tricks apply here as well. Never fight in the middle of the room, but retreat into a hallway. Use Pinning Staff to escape, use Cloning Staff to distract, use a Confusion Scroll if you need the entire room disabled for a few turns. If at all possible, avoid walking on any tile that you don't 100% know is untrapped. Note that the hallway entrances to all rooms including monster houses are never trapped to begin with, but if you dig your own entrances, those entry tiles may be trapped. Of course, you can swing your sword over every tile to check for traps, which is especially helpful in small monster houses and especially tedious in large ones. In "great hall monster houses" (as they were called in Shiren 1), the density of traps is so low it's not really worth it to check for traps with every step; it's more important to move into a strong defensible position if possible so you can control the rate at which you face incoming enemies. Again, Pinning is super helpful to escape problems. As a corollary, the Steady Shield and Unmoving Rune can be very good (e.g. they can save your life from being yanked into the middle of a monster house by a Fear Rabbit), but it's debateable if you should use them, as it's also very helpful to be able to use a Warp Grass or Pinning Staff when in trouble without having to remove your shield first. Make sure *not* to step on the trap that turns all items into monsters, at least not until you've despoiled everything you want from the room. And lastly, learn to skip monster houses when you have virtually everything you want already, as beyond a certain point of wealth, the upside of risking a monster house becomes less and less worth it, esp. as you get deeper and the danger increases. So sometimes the best way to maximize a monster house that is great hall (full floor / single room) on a deep floor is to pin your way to the exit as fast as possible. [TODO: find ExNihilo's tips about how best to clear out monster houses on GameFAQs.com and work that info in here.]


Maximizing shops: One of the best things you can do with a shop is sell the shopkeeper everything unidentified then give him an Identify Scroll. This fleshes out the identified items in your book very quickly. After doing this 2 or 3 times, it starts becoming rare to find an unidentified item, and it starts becoming easier to identify what remaining unidentified items might be. You can of course drop a single sword or shield on the floor and ask the shopkeeper it's sell price to determine if it's cursed or if it has a bonus upgrade value, then decide to sell it or equip it and thus fully identify it. And of course, theft is a critical part of the game. It would be hard to summarize what makes for a low risk theft in a short paragraph so I won't try. But if you are confident you can and should steal, sell all your items to the shopkeeper first then steal them back, so you not only get the items you want but a bunch of money too, making it less likely that you'll need to steal to survive in future. As with monster houses, there is a diminishing return to stealing. That is, as you become very wealthy and powerful, it becomes less and less worthwhile to take the risk of theft even if it seems easy. Keep in mind that, when the shopkeeper executes "the plan", all existing monsters turn into shopkeepers, some of which move at double speed, and, one room at random (other than the shop itself) becomes populated in bulk with monster-house levels of shopkeepers. If this room happens to be the exit room, your escape just became much more difficult. (Working theory is that the game will spawn shopkeepers until there are 20 living beings on the floor, so if you've left a lot of sleeping monsters elsewhere, fewer shopkeepers can spawn along your escape route.) One of the safest ways to try to steal is to use a Boring Staff to dig a passageway in the right location(s) then pin or swap as close to the exit as possible, minimizing the number of turns you need to take in thief mode. If you happen to have found a Black Hole Pot, you can break it inside the shop to create Pitfall Traps, then step on one to fall to the next floor when you're done selling and stealing everything you want. You can also use a Zalokleft Pot (from outside the shop!) to steal non-pot items from the shop completely safely. Arrange the non-pot items you most want to steal (like that 30K Identity Bracelet) in a straight line just inside the door, leave the shop, point the Zalokelft Pot back inside, and open it repeatedly. This won't work if you're inside the shop and it also only works horizontally or vertically, not diagonally. (You can of course also use Zalokleft Pots to generate more items by throwing them against a wall and killing the confused Zaloklefts that pop out.) With a Coupon Scroll, you can sell everything you own (except the Coupon Scroll) to the shopkeeper, then use the Coupon Scroll to get everything for free, and possibly sell it all back to him a second time, then steal the items you want and exit the floor. If you manage to pull off a few successful thefts earlier in your run, it really helps you keep ahead of the power curve and ultimately win your run.
Maximizing shops: (TODO: rewrite and shorten this paragraph / outsource everything via links. topics covered: mass ID, price check, stealing from shops, detail about what happens when you steal, selling a valuable thing and stealing it back with Zalokleft, and Boring Staff (all three should be summarized and moved to Dungeon Tips))


Selecting and enhancing equipment: Again, it's really hard to do this topic justice in a short paragraph. But basically, you want to choose a sword and shield pair that has a decent ultimate value when maxed out (make sure they have infinite rune capacity at L8), that has a good resonance if possible, and that doesn't take too much experience to max out to L8. At the low end, the Beast pair is still pretty fantastic, because it gains good runes as it levels up and requires relatively little experience to max out. At the high end, a Kabura Katana and Fuuma Shield can also work, but will take longer to max out and you'll be in more danger until you do max them out. The Bladite/Targite pair and the Red pair are also good choices. Some experts also swear by the Day Shield or Pauper's Plank; they might seem like counterintuitive choices but they become overpowered when maxed out. There may well be plenty of other great choices as well. Regardless of which equipment you choose (and in this dungeon, you'll have plenty to choose from), take full advantage of Mixer monsters and Synthesis Pots to add tons of runes and upgrade points. It's sometimes even worthwhile to save a 0-charge Healing Pot until you can find a Heal Bracelet to go with it and turn it into a Healing Rune.
One of the best things you can do with a shop is sell the shopkeeper everything unidentified then give him an Identify Scroll. You can of course drop a single sword or shield on the floor and ask the shopkeeper it's sell price to determine if it's cursed or if it has a bonus upgrade value, then decide to sell it or equip it and thus fully identify it. And of course, theft is a critical part of the game. Keep in mind that, when the shopkeeper executes "the plan", all existing monsters turn into shopkeepers, some of which move at double speed, and, one room at random (other than the shop itself) becomes populated in bulk with monster-house levels of shopkeepers. If this room happens to be the exit room, your escape just became much more difficult. One of the safest ways to try to steal is to use a Boring Staff to dig a passageway in the right location(s) then pin or swap as close to the exit as possible, minimizing the number of turns you need to take in thief mode. If you manage to pull off a few successful thefts earlier in your run, it really helps you keep ahead of the power curve and ultimately win your run.


One thing that is unique to this dungeon is the high frequency of "pop-up" monster houses aka surprise monster houses. Little is known about what controls or triggers these. They are not triggered by traps, because they sometimes appear when you step on a spot that cannot have a trap, such as the entrance to a room or a tile with an item on it. Note that at most one monster house can appear on any given floor. Very rarely, a floor will seem to have no monster house, and you'll try to create one yourself via a Monster House Scroll, but the creation will fail with a message saying there is already a monster house on this floor (or something to that effect). This can happen in any dungeon but is much more likely to happen here due to the higher frequency of pop-up monster houses in this dungeon. Working theory is that one room has been marked as a "pop-up" monster house in advance, and even though it hasn't manifested itself yet, you can't create another monster house on that floor.
This dungeon has a high frequency of "pop-up" or surprise monster houses. A room marked as a surprise monster house has a chance of popping up every time you take a step in the room, and there is no way to know it in advance. (For some theories on how these are triggered, see the comment.) <!-- d --> However, you can still prepare for them. Warp Grass and Hide Pots are both good prep items. Keep both a Pinning Staff and Swap Staff to help you escape the room as quickly as possible if a monster house pops up while you're in the middle. Walk in a straight line every time you enter a room lets you pin out most easily. It's also useful to keep at least one Confusion Scroll on hand if possible. Confusion lasts much longer than Slumber, and the monsters don't "wake" from Confusion hasted. Fear Scrolls and Fixer Scrolls aren't bad but only work on your immediate neighbors rather than the entire room. And of course, Swift Grass and Invincible Grass are definitely useful emergency items. It's always a good idea to keep at least one Heal Pot on hand if you can. Of course, when a monster house first pops up, immediately stop and check what monsters you're dealing with (and don't forget that tiles you walked over already may now have traps on them). If there are particularly dangerous monsters (e.g. monsters that can put you to sleep by hitting you, monsters that can inflict bad status ailments by throwing things at you, monsters that can yank you to their location and surround you with other monsters), this might be an excellent time to pin completely out the room and a fair ways down a hallway if you still have an open line of site to do so, or to use a Hide Pot or Warp Grass if you don't have a direct line of site for escape via Pinning Staff.
 
I've tried looking for contextual clues about a room before it becomes a monster house (exits? items? traps? monsters?) but there doesn't appear to be any contextual clue to let you know that this room will become a monster house, it seems that any room except a shop can become a monster house.
 
One theory about the pop-up trigger is that every step you take in the room has an X% chance of triggering the pop-up monster house, where X is somewhere between 5% and 50% but 25% feels about right. Another theory is that the odds of triggering the pop-up monster house go up as you re-enter the room after leaving it once. If either of these theories is correct, it might be worthwhile to step in and out of a room multiple times to see if you can force the monster house to pop-up while you're standing immediately next to the exit. Or, it's possible that the odds of triggering only go up after you leave from a different exit or re-enter from a different entrance.
 
But it's not practical to fear going into rooms, as even though pop-up monster houses are much more common in this dungeon, the vast majority of rooms won't be pop-up monster houses. So, while it's hard to predict where and when they might pop up, you can still prepare for them. Warp Grass and Hide Pots are both good prep items. Keep both a Pinning Staff and Swap Staff to help you escape the room as quickly as possible if a monster house pops up while you're in the middle. It may be useful to train yourself to walk in straight lines once you get into rooms, keeping a straight line of sight to an exit to pin out most easily. It's also useful to keep at least one Confusion Scroll on hand if possible. Confusion lasts much longer than Slumber, and the monsters don't "wake" from Confusion hasted. Fear Scrolls and Fixer Scrolls aren't bad but only work on your immediate neighbors rather than the entire room. And of course, Swift Grass and Invincible Grass are definitely useful emergency items. It's always a good idea to keep at least one Heal Pot on hand if you can. Of course, when a monster house first pops up, immediately stop and check what monsters you're dealing with (and don't forget that tiles you walked over already may now have traps on them). If there are particularly dangerous monsters (e.g. monsters that can put you to sleep by hitting you, monsters that can inflict bad status ailments by throwing things at you, monsters that can yank you to their location and surround you with other monsters), this might be an excellent time to pin completely out the room and a fair ways down a hallway if you still have an open line of site to do so, or to use a Hide Pot or Warp Grass if you don't have a direct line of site for escape via Pinning Staff.


== Expert Badges ==
== Expert Badges ==

Revision as of 00:00, 11 January 2021


This article may need cleanup to meet quality standards.
Please help improve this if you can. The Discussion page may contain suggestions.

Key Parameters
Initial Goal Floor 50F
Final Goal Floor 99F
Day / Night Day
Bring Items In No
Take Items Out Yes
# of Allies 0
# of Rescues 0
Pre-ID'd Items No
New Items No
Shops All 3 types
Monster Houses Common, including pop-ups
NPCs Shopkeepers only
Spawn Rate Every 30 turns (normal)
Winds of Kron Normal (slow)

Perilous Rocks is a bonus dungeon in Shiren 5 with a higher rate of monster houses, including "pop-up" monster houses. You can't take items, Gitan, or allies into the dungeon, nor can you request rescue, but you keep the items if you win. The dungeon is daytime only and the initial goal floor is 50 F. After the first victory, the goal floor becomes 99 F and stays there permanently.

Gaining Access

This dungeon can be accessed from the Dungeon Center in Nekomaneki Village. Access is not restricted; you can play as soon as you can reach the Dungeon Center.

Unique Features

  • Monster houses are more common than normal, and especially "pop-up" or "surprise" monster houses.
  • Shops are more common than normal.
  • Item distribution differs but it's hard to be specific:
    • You can apparently find the full variety of items in this dungeon, though not uniformly spread across all the floors.
    • Earlier floors tend to have less expensive and less harmful items.
  • The dungeon is daytime only.

Final Reward

Every time you beat this dungeon, you get a Worthy Shield, the level 8 form of the Shoddy Plank, which isn't particularly useful.

Farming Opportunities

Strategy

Like with other dungeons where you cannot take items in, many tips related to beating this dungeon can be found in Dungeon Tips.

This dungeon is very generous with items, due to the higher rate of monster houses and shops.


Maximizing monster houses: The usual tricks apply here as well. Never fight in the middle of the room, but retreat into a hallway. Use Pinning Staff to escape, use Cloning Staff to distract, use a Confusion Scroll if you need the entire room disabled for a few turns. If at all possible, avoid walking on any tile that you don't 100% know is untrapped. Note that the hallway entrances to all rooms including monster houses are never trapped to begin with, but if you dig your own entrances, those entry tiles may be trapped. Of course, you can swing your sword over every tile to check for traps, which is especially helpful in small monster houses and especially tedious in large ones. In "great hall monster houses" (as they were called in Shiren 1), the density of traps is so low it's not really worth it to check for traps with every step; it's more important to move into a strong defensible position if possible so you can control the rate at which you face incoming enemies. Again, Pinning is super helpful to escape problems. As a corollary, the Steady Shield and Unmoving Rune can be very good (e.g. they can save your life from being yanked into the middle of a monster house by a Fear Rabbit), but it's debateable if you should use them, as it's also very helpful to be able to use a Warp Grass or Pinning Staff when in trouble without having to remove your shield first. Make sure *not* to step on the trap that turns all items into monsters, at least not until you've despoiled everything you want from the room. And lastly, learn to skip monster houses when you have virtually everything you want already, as beyond a certain point of wealth, the upside of risking a monster house becomes less and less worth it, esp. as you get deeper and the danger increases. So sometimes the best way to maximize a monster house that is great hall (full floor / single room) on a deep floor is to pin your way to the exit as fast as possible. [TODO: find ExNihilo's tips about how best to clear out monster houses on GameFAQs.com and work that info in here.]

Maximizing shops: (TODO: rewrite and shorten this paragraph / outsource everything via links. topics covered: mass ID, price check, stealing from shops, detail about what happens when you steal, selling a valuable thing and stealing it back with Zalokleft, and Boring Staff (all three should be summarized and moved to Dungeon Tips))

One of the best things you can do with a shop is sell the shopkeeper everything unidentified then give him an Identify Scroll. You can of course drop a single sword or shield on the floor and ask the shopkeeper it's sell price to determine if it's cursed or if it has a bonus upgrade value, then decide to sell it or equip it and thus fully identify it. And of course, theft is a critical part of the game. Keep in mind that, when the shopkeeper executes "the plan", all existing monsters turn into shopkeepers, some of which move at double speed, and, one room at random (other than the shop itself) becomes populated in bulk with monster-house levels of shopkeepers. If this room happens to be the exit room, your escape just became much more difficult. One of the safest ways to try to steal is to use a Boring Staff to dig a passageway in the right location(s) then pin or swap as close to the exit as possible, minimizing the number of turns you need to take in thief mode. If you manage to pull off a few successful thefts earlier in your run, it really helps you keep ahead of the power curve and ultimately win your run.

This dungeon has a high frequency of "pop-up" or surprise monster houses. A room marked as a surprise monster house has a chance of popping up every time you take a step in the room, and there is no way to know it in advance. (For some theories on how these are triggered, see the comment.) However, you can still prepare for them. Warp Grass and Hide Pots are both good prep items. Keep both a Pinning Staff and Swap Staff to help you escape the room as quickly as possible if a monster house pops up while you're in the middle. Walk in a straight line every time you enter a room lets you pin out most easily. It's also useful to keep at least one Confusion Scroll on hand if possible. Confusion lasts much longer than Slumber, and the monsters don't "wake" from Confusion hasted. Fear Scrolls and Fixer Scrolls aren't bad but only work on your immediate neighbors rather than the entire room. And of course, Swift Grass and Invincible Grass are definitely useful emergency items. It's always a good idea to keep at least one Heal Pot on hand if you can. Of course, when a monster house first pops up, immediately stop and check what monsters you're dealing with (and don't forget that tiles you walked over already may now have traps on them). If there are particularly dangerous monsters (e.g. monsters that can put you to sleep by hitting you, monsters that can inflict bad status ailments by throwing things at you, monsters that can yank you to their location and surround you with other monsters), this might be an excellent time to pin completely out the room and a fair ways down a hallway if you still have an open line of site to do so, or to use a Hide Pot or Warp Grass if you don't have a direct line of site for escape via Pinning Staff.

Expert Badges

[TODO: confirm that there are no expert badges.]

Monsters

The types of monsters that can appear in this dungeon have not yet been replicated to this wiki. Here are good external resources:

Open Questions

  • Check if there are monster badges.
  • Flesh out the tips and strategy section.
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