Mystery Dungeon Franchise Wiki:Projects (Shiren 5 Vita)

This page lists areas of additional research and clarification that are still outstanding. (It's also a list of things to clean up on other wiki pages.)

Research

Template:Shiren5

• Do "extra damage" weapons like a Crescent Katana still do more damage to monsters when thrown?

Template:Shiren5

For example, when Shiren gains Paralyzed state, he can't take his turn for a long time (20 turns? 100?).

Template:Shiren5

[TODO: Re-confirm whether or not secret pot effects on swords and shields can ever appear in a different order than "rune order". If not, then maybe it's the case that, for swords and shields only, secret pot effects must appear in a certain sequence which is the same as rune sequence.]

Within an effect pool, some effects can have restrictions on how they can be applied / to what layers they can be applied.

• IIRC, the secret pot effects can appear in any order. (All item's innate effects are always first in the list.)

An innate effect can scale up based on the item's level, but this is not true for secret pot effects / rune effects.

• E.g. a level 1 Blast Shield ("Blast Shield") blocks 50% of explosion damage, but a level 8 Blast Shield ("Bomb Shelter") blocks significantly more than 50% of explosion damage. [TODO: Re-confirm the specific percentages of blocked damage.]

Template:Shiren5

These excellent external references may have better and more complete information that has not yet been replicated to this wiki:

• https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mGBY1txjWch9mckciV7WqbcO6a5VF1P3exPNOsaK580/edit?usp=sharing
• https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/106641-shiren-the-wanderer-the-tower-of-fortune-and-the-dice-of/74294944

These charts were taken from this great external resource (which is also listed at the top of this page). The external source has more detail, but this wiki page contains the most important parts.

"Dirk of Debts Rune"

Raises power (by an unknown amount) for 30 gitan per hit. If out of cash, power drops to zero.

This may be a very good rune; see this link for more info: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/106641-shiren-the-wanderer-the-tower-of-fortune-and-the-dice-of/76598088 .

"Pauper's Plank Type"

Raises power (by an unknown amount) for 30 gitan per hit. If out of cash, power drops to zero.

This may be a very good rune; see this link for more info: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/106641-shiren-the-wanderer-the-tower-of-fortune-and-the-dice-of/76598088 .

Some runes list their status as bad? or good? These should be confirmed.

Template:Shiren5

• Unlock requirements are needed.
• The password number is a convenience for this web page. There is no known specific ordering of the passwords. [TODO: if there is no meaning behind or reason for this specific ordering, consider re-ordering in a more logical order and/or removing the numbers altogether.]
• The exact spelling and capitalization of English passwords was taken from the master list posted on Gamefaqs, linked below. At least one old post says that passwords are case-sensitive and that some of the passwords listed here do not have the correct capitalization. So, if a given password doesn't work, try it with alternate capitalization (and please update this wiki with confirmed spellings!). In particular, note that the master source claims that #29 is spelled "Carte blanche", and if this is correct and if the passwords are case-sensitive, it's the only password that doesn't use the same capitalization system as the rest of the passwords.
• Both the master English source and the master Japanese source show 33 passwords, however, the set of reward items is not identical across the English and Japanese versions of the game. 2 English passwords above have no Japanese equivalents and vice versa.
• #34 (DS) Password: ふぁみつう means "Famitsu", a Japanese magazine that reviews games.

1. Reward: ｢ファミ通の挑戦状｣解禁 means "Famitsu challenge letter ban" (??? There is no known item like this in the English version of the game.)
2. Description: ダンジョンセンターで新ダンジョンが探検できる means "From dungeon center, you can go on a new dungeon" - Source Black Looper

Template:Shiren5

• The name "Trapper Bracelet Mode" is a fan creation. [TODO: go through in-game documentation and in-game info about Gen's Turf and Trapper's Sandbox again to see if there is a more official name for this.]
• Traps can be picked up, moved, thrown, and otherwise manipulated in inventory. (but doing so seems to reduce the trap's longevity -- needs more testing)

Template:Shiren5

• Traps are immune to being destroyed by explosions, volcanic eruptions, and other things that would normally destroy items on the ground.
• Blessings, Curses, and Seals

1. Traps cannot be blessed, cursed, or sealed. Shiren 5 does not have a "broken trap" item as some previous games did. No NPCs will buy, sell, or repair traps.

• [TODO: try cheating a Pick-A-Choice shop with a Floating Bracelet and/or a Trapper Bracelet.]
• [TODO: try using a Floating Bracelet and a Trapper Bracelet with Points Traps.]
• [TODO: try throwing an item on a "spring device" and on an "arrow tile" and see if items trigger them and/or can exist on them.]
• [CONFIRM] Confirm that just making a trap permanently visible will register it in your Item Book. If in doubt, check your Item Book to be sure, and if it's not registered yet, you may need to deliberately trigger it. [/CONFIRM]
• Reference Chart

1. Rust Trap - Helpful against metal monsters, Digestiphants and Firebirds when in Template:Shiren5.
2. Gauge Blind. Trap - It doesn't prevent you from seeing the flashing red when you are low on HP (this is true for the Nintendo DS version; is it also true for PS Vita?)
3. Onigiri Trap - If you take fire or explosion damage during this time, you're "grilled" and thus insta-killed. Likewise, if you get hit by a Decay Trap, you'll also be insta-killed.
4. Summon Trap - There seems to be a limit for monsters on the floor, if there are too many, only 3 or less (or none) monsters will be summoned, this may happen on floors with a Monster House.
5. Pit Trap - When you're on the last floor of a given location, such as Destiny Trail 5F, you climb out of the trap instead of moving on to the next location.
6. Floor Warp Trap - [CONFIRM] Is it always exactly 3 floors ahead? Also, confirm this trap type doesn't work when there is no floor to move forward to. [/CONFIRM]
7. Time Switch Trap - This will cause monsters to drop whatever they would have ordinarily dropped, but it doesn't give you any experience.

Template:Shiren5 / Cleanup

Pre-Placed: Virtually every dungeon has at least some items pre-placed on the ground. This can be as few as 1 item per floor or as many as 8 (possibly even more).

Primarily Outside of Dungeons

Some methods that work inside dungeons can also be done outside of dungeons, such as in your storage unit in Nekomaneki Village, but the results are usually less than stellar. For example, using a Presto Pot to create items in your storage unit creates a very limited range of poor items. No one has yet documented what happens if you try each of the primarily-dungeon methods outside of dungeons. (Turn your storage unit into a monster house?!) But there are some unique ways to get items that are only possible in the starting villages.

Transporting Items and the Dungeon Barrier

---- (Needs confirmation and less Also)

Through various mechanisms, it is possible to add a tag to swords and shields. If you fail in your run, tagged items might be returned to you in the Sentry in Hermit's Hermitage. While the in-game documentation implies this is not guaranteed, it seems to happen every time, or at least no one has yet documented it failing. One player even reported getting a tagged item back via the Sentry even though it was destroyed when it was knocked off by one monster and flew backwards to hit another monster. But beware that the Sentry has limited inventory space so if you let items pile up there, extra lost items will probably be lost permanently. Also, you may have to buy your items back rather than just be given them back. Also beware that selling an item to a shopkeeper in a dungeon removes any tag, and thus sold items will never show up at the Sentry.

---- (test/clarify)

One theory is that the stream location can only trigger when an item is lost in water, while the rooftop location can only trigger when an item is lost in void. Another theory is that the rooftop location can only trigger for items lost in any way in Tower of Fortune floors beyond Hermit's Hermitage, while the stream location can trigger for any other location. Neither theory has been thoroughly tested.)

Attributes

---- (less aka)

Items have attributes (aka characteristics, aka features.

---- (test/clarify)

(Is a level 1 Ordinary Stick the same item as a level 2 Ordinary Stick aka a Good Stick? They have different names, they count as different entries in your Item Book, and trying to mix and match them in a Fever Pot causes an explosion. So, they're different types, and one of the features of a level 1 Ordinary Stick is that when it gains enough experience, it transforms into a level 2 Ordinary Stick.)

Equipment

---- (Durables isn't a word and why is equipment in bold?)

Durables are usually called equipment because you use them by equipping them and they have certain effects on the player or game state while equipped, but they aren't fundamentally different than other types of items.

(Apparently consumability outweighs equability in the minds of most players.) Torches cannot be cursed, but all other types of equipment (durables) are vulnerable to curses, which means they can't be unequipped voluntarily. See Template:Shiren5 in the Strategies section for more info.

Type Attributes vs. Instance Attributes

(That being said, instance attributes can help you identify items. E.g. some types of bracelets seem to be either always cursed or at least cursed much more frequently than normal. So if you find an unknown bracelet and figure out it's cursed, it may be good to name it "Cursed1", and when you later find a 2nd copy of the same bracelet, if that is also cursed, odds are very good it's one of the very-frequently-cursed types of bracelets.)

Prices

• Working theory: filled pot spaces do not add to the pot's price, but, the content item's price is added to the pot's price.
• In other words, you can *decrease* the price of a valuable pot by putting a cheap item into it.
• Which kind of makes sense if it's true, because the real value of a pot is its potential -- being able to choose what you put in and when -- and you usually can't remove items at will from most types of pots.

• Runes and upgrade points on swords and shields also increase the price, though no one has yet determined by how much.
• It is assumed that tags and experience on swords and shields do not affect the price.

Template:Shiren5

• Try throwing an empty Healing Pot at something and see if it releases a healing effect.

Items Not in the Item Book

---- (Needs to have a page made or info added.)

Monster licenses

TO-DO

Template:Shiren5

• Item Tagging
• Monster Houses
• Shops
• Rescues
• Template:Shiren5
• Navbox

Template:Shiren5

Super state, available for Shiren only, is a key gameplay element of Shiren 5 and deserves its own strategy page.

Clean up all instances of "IIRC" and "OTOH" across the Shiren 5 section.

Template:Shiren5

True Trophies (linked in the sources below) uses a flagging system that I think we should mimic to some degree here as it would help greatly with identifying trophy. For example: Listing which ones are story-based trophies, un-missables, platinum, buggy, shop related, time consuming (20+ hours), etc. Link in the sources to the flagging page. I think it would help a lot. Korra Royal (talk) 04:58, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Template:Shiren5

(Link to monster family pages eventually)

Monster-Generated: Some monsters can create infinite supplies of certain items. (E.g. Trowelies create Dirt, Field Knaves create Weeds, Carts create certain arrows, Mutaikons create certain grasses, etc.)

(Link to Gameplay Elements/Shops page)

Shops: There are 3 different kinds of shops aka stores, which let you buy, sell, or win items. (By design, it's also possible to steal items.)

Link to shopkeeper page(s)

Template:Shiren5

Link to Hotel Nekomaneki page.

• On my 1st run, I found 4 Synthesis Pots in the first ~10 floors. I assumed they were just super common in this dungeon. I wanted the pots back at home, so I used an Escape Scroll rather than completing the run. I played Gen's Turf only 2 more times after that, once dying around 15F and then beating it, and I never saw another Synthesis Pot again. Why were the Synthesis Pots so common in that one run? Was I just incredibly lucky that run, or was something controlling that, like having a lucky day, and is it something I could control and repeat? I suspect there might be a hidden variable that influences luck in dungeon runs, and I suspect you can get a hint about it by talking to the fortune teller in Inori Village (and who also sometimes appears in Tower of Fortune). Maybe you should visit her before going into any dungeon, and depending on what she says on a given day, you can decide to go a dungeon to intentionally exit quickly to consume and discard some bad luck, or you can choose the right dungeon to go into to consume some good luck. E.g. maybe go into the hardest dungeons on days when the fortune teller says you have a good fortune?
• On my 2nd run, which failed around ~15 F, I actually died several floors earlier, and a strange thing happened. An NPC woman came out of nowhere and revived me, as if I had a Revival Herb. IIRC, she stayed around as an ally of mine, but quickly got killed by the many monsters around me. (I don't remember what I was doing to get in such a bad situation at the time.) Why did this lady appear, and is it something I can control? Is it something I unlocked without realizing it in Tower of Fortune or elsewhere? Will she always appear the first time I collapse in Gen's Turf, or do I need to reset her somehow? Is this by any chance the same NPC woman who you find wandering in the Tower of Fortune who asks if you think she will find what she's looking for, and if you say no, she gives you an item and disappears, and if you say yes, she just disappears? (Working theory: this is an old note. There probably isn't anything unique here, it's probably just the young boy and his older sister side NPC quest, which you can reset. But the note says that the NPC that revived me stayed around as my ally for a bit—is it someone else??)
• The dungeon summary info for Gen's Turf, before you launch the dungeon, says that you can request 3 rescues. I didn't see a way to request a rescue when I died, after the NPC lady rescued me. Did I just miss it? Did the NPC woman who rescued me throw it off?

• [Confirm: Does swapping a trap in inventory with one on the ground count as an action? What if only one of the items is a trap, or neither is a trap?]
• If you break a jar with traps inside it, they will be immovable.
• Any traps thrown at Firebirds will burn up.
• It is not yet know if you get additional Trapper Bracelets when you beat the 99 F version of the dungeon. The Japanese wiki seems to say that you only ever get one, the first time you beat the dungeon, but this needs confirmation.
• [Can you get Trapper Bracelets in Template:Shiren5 or not? Can you get multiple copies of Trapper Bracelets from this dungeon?]
• I have not tried to make multiple copies of monster licenses. I wonder if you (e.g.) kept a duplicate license in a pot if only one copy would be destroyed if you accidentally damaged one of your ally monsters.
• (I believe inflicting status effects on ally monsters does not break the license. Speeding them up with staves or talismans doesn't break it, but this needs more testing.)

Notes

"Beware that many state names in Shiren 5 are buggy, having different names in different parts of the UI, including often showing the wrong name entirely at the top of the information screen about the state."

I think we need somewhere on the wiki to document bugs properly. Korra Royal (talk) 16:14, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Resonances

Resonance effects are in Shiren DS2, Shiren 3. I don't know if they were in the original GameBoy Color release of Magic Castle of the Desert though. I don't believe the game gives any hint of which items resonate or what the effects are in Shiren 3, outside of telling you that they resonated. Korra Royal (talk) 14:32, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Discussions

Are Traps Really Items?

Though traps may seem like terrain features or special gameplay elements (as they are in many other RPG games), traps are in fact an item category in Shiren 5 and possibly in all games in the Shiren series so far. This is counter-intuitive so it's worth explaining how it can be determined for Shiren 5:

• An item cannot exist on the same tile as a trap, whereas this probably wouldn't be true if traps were a type of terrain.
• Under certain circumstances, the player can pick up and move traps and use them just like any other item. (This is true in both Shiren 1 and Shiren 5 but is apparently not possible in every Shiren game such as Shiren Moonlit Village and Shiren 3. Picking up and moving traps for the first time can be mind-blowing if you didn't know it was possible and thought they were part of the terrain.)
• Traps are listed in the in-game Item Book and you need to find/identify them all to complete the Item Book achievement.

No one has yet documented reverse-engineering the code to confirm they use item code, but it's pretty clear from the above that they are implemented as items at least in Shiren 5. That being said, traps have many special features, making them very distinct from other categories of items.

~ Rhaining

No

• Items can exist on the same areas as certain traps in Shiren 3. Items can't exist on water tiles in DS2 or walls but we don't call water or walls an item. (Outside of misc items such as when in a water jar for the sake of identification on misc. item pages.)
• Keywords being "Under certain circumstances." You need a special item to be able to pick them up and move them which also changes their basic usage and effects. Traps can't be bought or sold in shops, can't be obtained via. change jars, rescue rewards or (most likely) traded.

• Even with broken trap recycling, they're not consistently able to be picked up across the entire series like a sword or shield. They require the use of a very specific armband which isn't even in every game. That should just be a side note on the pages where it *is* an element. I've noticed tons of differences across the series and they should just be referenced on their specific pages but consistency should be used when possible so pages aren't in different locations all over the wiki.
• The fact that nobody has documented or reverse engineered this also just make it an opinion piece and it doesn't belong on the main wiki page for traps.

• Even if traps are listed in the item book for Shiren 5 (under certain circumstances), that's 1 translation out of 3. They're listed that way because they can be picked up using a trap armband and for no other reason. I've seen dozens of Japanese wiki's and not a single one of them has ever listed traps under the items category either. I have several of the official strategy guides and the only one of them to ist traps with the items is Shiren 5 due to them being under the collectibles category..
• We don't have monsters listed under items. Despite being able to insert monster meat into a jar of change to get another item. Despite how it can be bought and sold at shops or as a rescue reward (Shiren 1) and is most games. Which brings me to my final point.
• I had Shiren 5 traps split for a reason. The same reason as Shiren 1 and DS2. The same reason monster meat is on it's own page, separate from monsters. Traps as items and traps as gameplay elements function differently. They should be 2 separate pages and link to each-other so people can read up on traps in the way that is relevant to them. When you need to view monsters or traps, you go to those pages. And when you need to see how they function as items under very specific circumstances, you just follow the link to the appropriate page. It also helps with overcrowding in the reference tables across the wiki.

Korra Royal (talk) 16:14, 1 May 2019 (UTC)